DL training questions

[VinceS]

Haven't been on here in a while, but I like to check it out from time to time.

I'm trying to get a handle on the deadlift program, but the info seems to be scattered throughout.

What I do gather is...
1. DL training is done on same day as ME SQ.
2. DL is trained every two weeks only.

Here's what I'm not sure about...
1. Band rotation
2. Trap bar use
3. reps.

This is my best guess at what I'm reading...
Week 2: DL w/smalls to 1RM?
Week 4: TBDL to 10?
Week 6: DL w/mon minis to 1RM?
Week 8: TBDL to 5-8?
Week 10: DL w/minis to 1RM
Week 12: contest, DL max?

Is this correct? Can you clarify?
btw, I didn't break it into cycles, just to simplify it in my own mind, but I know that it's 6 cycles. Thanks.

[joeaverage]

One thing that I have realized about overall strength training is that rest and recovery is so important. I deadlift maybe once every 3-4 weeks and my dl is stronger than ever. I've also noticed that by keeping our reps a little higher when doing our band work, that our free weight work is so much stronger. I really noticed this with Mazza, keeping his reps at 5 or higher when doing any kind of band work his free weight has just taken off. Last week he benched 650 x 10.
I alternate my dl training between bands and free weight. I use the iron woody 20" dl bands, doubled with a dl bar and the trapbar when doing freeweight.

workout #1: trapbar x 10 reps or more
workout #2: ME DL with doubled smalls x 5-8 reps
workout #3: trapbar x 5-6 reps
workout #4: ME DL with doubled mediums x 5-8 reps
workout #5: trapbar x 3-4 reps
workout #6: ME DL with doubled larges x 5-8 reps
Max

At this point, if I were to do a 12 week cycle and then compete, I would probably only do 4 workouts. I would do the first 2 free weight and the last 2 ME. keep the reps higher and train with more tension.
I was just looking at my log book a few days ago, my first set of 10 with the trapbar was 515 x 10 and that was 11/04. The other day I pulled 650 x 9. Also, at the end of each cycle I recently started testing myself with the dl bar for 10 reps. My last test was 545 x 10, the most I could pull for a set of 10 prior to this current format was 495.

Most guys when they see there numbers drop, they panic and either try a new system, get new gear and shoot more in the ass. If you start out deadlifting every other week and after a while you see your numbers dropping or stop making gains, don't do any of the above 3, try what I did and allow for more rest and recovery. No matter what, I squat once a week. I could go 5 weeks between pulls and PR a workout with either bands or trapbar.

I do the same with Mazza, if we can't mesh our schedules for a workout, we always go later rather than earlier. An extra day or two of rest always seems to help more than hurt.

the above band rotation is what I do, use whatever 3 bands you can handle and always finish with the heaviest rather than lightest.

[VinceS]

Thanks...also, I know you've talked about being in the 250# range for squats and 100# range for BP as far as heaviest band tension is concerned; Do you find that a certain percentage of your max should correlate with a certain band tension so that you have an idea if your in the ballpark with the right bands?

Edit: I meant BP, not DL. Mistyped it.

[joeaverage]

you actually have me thinking, I've never tried to use more than one band with the dl. With these 20" iron woody bands I think I could use a combination of bands which i will try on my next dl workout and will let you know.
bands are like steroids, the more tension you use the stronger you get. So, throw the numbers out the door, use the heaviest tension that you can handle even if you are just using the bar for 4-5 reps. But, it is important to spread out your middle and lightest tension. For all 3 lifts, you want to make sure that your tensions are spread out, best way to make sure you are doing that is that you want a significant amount of difference in bar weight from one tension to the next.
Unless you are just starting out and the most tension you can handle is smalls, then your rotation would be mini's, monster mini and small. As you develop your band strength it's important to start spreading out your tensions. I've learned the hard way, your body can only handle the crazy tension periodically, it's important to have a light and middle tension that is much less than your heaviest. Constant heavy bands will wear you out and cause you to regress.

[VinceS]

I figured it would be something similar to that.

Also, what do you think about substituting concentric good mornings using the similar rep scheme? I know you prefer doing exercises that are similar to the core lift, but it seems that the concentric GMs might be a good alternative if you don't have a TB and might also allow for better recovery because you would actually decrease the amount of pulling you're doing.

[joeaverage]

I haven't done a GM in years. Training with the bands has allowed me to eliminate all assistance work. Trust me there is no substitute for the trapbar. The trapbar allows you to train with max plus weight, or far more weight than you can pull with the reg dl bar. Just a great bar to develop your dl.

[VinceS]

What would you suggest if you don't have access to a trap bar?

[mjc1021]

Reverse band deadlift. No substitute for trap bar though as it greatly improves squatting ability as well.

[joeaverage]

I tell everyone, the investment that I have made in equipment has more than paid off. Over the years I have tried this and that and everything, the way i train now is the most effective way for developing tremendous strength. Trapbar and SSB is worth the investment.

[VinceS]

I was just thinking about the template again. I saw it, and even wrote it myself, but never even put 2 and 2 together. In a 12 week cycle, you have 6 ME and 6 free weight/DE workouts for both the SQ and BP. But this is not the case with the DL. It appears that there are going to be only 3 ME and 3 free weight workouts as deadlifting is done just once every two weeks.

My assumption is that this is for recovery purposes. Correct? Or is there another reason for this that I missed?

[joeaverage]

yes, recovery. Most of the same muscles are used for both exercises so we've cut back on the dl with no loss in strength. I dl even less frequent, maybe once a month and am even stronger.