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Post by thepunisher on Nov 14, 2008 20:48:42 GMT -5
Hey guys I posted this at another website, but I was looking for some more input on this especially from the experienced guys and from guys who only raw/single ply squat to those who are multi ply squatting.... I have been having some trouble squatting, I always heard to use a low bar position when squatting, and the only way I can create that little shelf back there is by pulling my shoulder blades back and lifting my elbows up a little bit, however I keep hearing people say you have to keep your elbows under the bar?  Also, I watched a lot of videos today on youtube from the previous arnold with the USAPL there, and all of them used a low bar squat with their elbows pulled back and a little up?? I also heard though that when it comes to double ply/multiply feds, they are using a high bar stance so they can keep their elbows under the bar, remain tighter and more upright, anybody have any thoughts? Is anyone using a low bar in either single or multi feds? |
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Post by joeaverage on Nov 15, 2008 9:16:01 GMT -5
what kind of stance are you using?
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Post by mjc1021 on Nov 15, 2008 12:47:38 GMT -5
Keeping your elbows up will force an undisciplined lifter to lean forward. When you don't have a lot of muscle in your trap/rear delt area the you will have a hard time with a lower bar position due to the bar sliding. I think you should squat whatever way is most comfortable for your body type. There is no one way to do things. Hope that helps.
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Post by thepunisher on Nov 15, 2008 13:16:43 GMT -5
what kind of stance are you using? Not too wide but not narrow either, in a power rack, my feet are about 2 inches away from both sides.... |
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Post by thepunisher on Nov 15, 2008 13:23:21 GMT -5
Keeping your elbows up will force an undisciplined lifter to lean forward. When you don't have a lot of muscle in your trap/rear delt area the you will have a hard time with a lower bar position due to the bar sliding. I think you should squat whatever way is most comfortable for your body type. There is no one way to do things. Hope that helps. And that is one reason why I was thinking about changing to high bar because I tend to lean forward a good amount, but I think that is my body type, especially to keep the bar over my hips and in line with my heels...but with a high bar I can remain more upright and keep my arch better, the only thing is, its a little harder to sit back, especially to keep your knees from moving forward....the thing with high bar is it will rest on my traps and my elbows wont be directly under the bar but it will be much closer than when I use a low bar, because the only way I can create that rear delt shelf for the bar to sit in is to pull my shoulder blades back and together, therefore they are not directly under the bar, they are up and back a little bit.....but isn't it true that the guys who use multi ply gear, use a little higher bar, it really isn't considered high bar like on their traps, but it higher than normal, higher than the rear delts because of the thick straps on the suits? But I see all the westside videos, they all use a low bar position... |
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Post by joeaverage on Nov 15, 2008 13:42:13 GMT -5
you do not want to go high bar. It sounds like you squat in a standard power rack and with your feet 2 inches from the sides you definitely squat with a conventional stance. Mike (mjc1021) squats raw with a conventional stance (when he shows up). When he started with us he set the bar up high, he was okay until the bar weight got up into the higher 600's and 700's and the weight forced him over. We had him lower the bar and he tripled 735 with just knee wraps and a conventional stance.
If you are leaning forward, it's not the bar placement that is the problem, it's your core. WSB always talks about your core as do I. You need to strengthen your core, meaning your low back and abs. Max effort squats with heavy bands is how we developed our core strength along with using the safety squat bar. We've also become convinced that all of our trapbar work has helped our squats as well.
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Post by thepunisher on Nov 15, 2008 13:46:32 GMT -5
you do not want to go high bar. It sounds like you squat in a standard power rack and with your feet 2 inches from the sides you definitely squat with a conventional stance. Mike (mjc1021) squats raw with a conventional stance (when he shows up). When he started with us he set the bar up high, he was okay until the bar weight got up into the higher 600's and 700's and the weight forced him over. We had him lower the bar and he tripled 735 with just knee wraps and a conventional stance. If you are leaning forward, it's not the bar placement that is the problem, it's your core. WSB always talks about your core as do I. You need to strengthen your core, meaning your low back and abs. Max effort squats with heavy bands is how we developed our core strength along with using the safety squat bar. We've also become convinced that all of our trapbar work has helped our squats as well. Wow, triples 735, thats sick..I will keep my low bar then, so you guys rest it on the rear delts? I think one thing is that my upper back development is not very good, I don't have a lot of meat up there....that was my other guess because I never do abs or core work, which I should but I guess I just left it up to deadlifting and squatting, but obviously that is not enough.... |
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Post by joeaverage on Nov 15, 2008 15:03:03 GMT -5
everyone has a groove above there shoulder blades. my son is 13 and weighs 115, squatted 300 today with his Titan centurion and knee wraps, he sets the bar right in that little groove. my son was able to stay upright, has a very strong core. Does no ab work or any assistance work, has a strong core from squatting with bands.
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Post by thepunisher on Nov 15, 2008 17:37:33 GMT -5
everyone has a groove above there shoulder blades. my son is 13 and weighs 115, squatted 300 today with his Titan centurion and knee wraps, he sets the bar right in that little groove. my son was able to stay upright, has a very strong core. Does no ab work or any assistance work, has a strong core from squatting with bands. Man your son is going to be so sick when he gets older, thats awesome....thanks for the help Jim, I appreciate it. |
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Post by thepunisher on Nov 16, 2008 1:21:39 GMT -5
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Post by joeaverage on Nov 16, 2008 10:40:14 GMT -5
Chuck V and the others, definitely lower with the bar. There's that bone at the bottom of your neck (on the back side) basically just above where your upper back starts. So many beginners especially high school kids set the squat bar up near or on that bone, that is setting the bar high. Chuck V and the others are definitely setting the bar on the 'shelf' above there shoulder blades. Everyone is built a little different so the bar placement can move around a bit from person to person, but anyone squatting any kind of weight is definitely setting the bar lower. You will typically see bodybuilders who do very high reps will generally keep the bar higher so that it doesn't roll on them and there core is strong enough to allow them to stay upright with lighter weight for higher reps.
When someone initially starts squatting with the bar on there 'shelf' they initially feel that the bar is going to roll off, just have to get used to it.
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Post by thepunisher on Nov 16, 2008 13:17:50 GMT -5
Chuck V and the others, definitely lower with the bar. There's that bone at the bottom of your neck (on the back side) basically just above where your upper back starts. So many beginners especially high school kids set the squat bar up near or on that bone, that is setting the bar high. Chuck V and the others are definitely setting the bar on the 'shelf' above there shoulder blades. Everyone is built a little different so the bar placement can move around a bit from person to person, but anyone squatting any kind of weight is definitely setting the bar lower. You will typically see bodybuilders who do very high reps will generally keep the bar higher so that it doesn't roll on them and there core is strong enough to allow them to stay upright with lighter weight for higher reps. When someone initially starts squatting with the bar on there 'shelf' they initially feel that the bar is going to roll off, just have to get used to it. Thanks for your time Jim(? sorry if this is not your name, I am a newbie as you can see) but I appreciate it...I figured squatting 1100+ pounds is almost impossible to rest on your traps, it just doesn't seem like it would work too well..thanks again man. |
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Post by thepunisher on Nov 16, 2008 13:19:17 GMT -5
Chuck V and the others, definitely lower with the bar. There's that bone at the bottom of your neck (on the back side) basically just above where your upper back starts. So many beginners especially high school kids set the squat bar up near or on that bone, that is setting the bar high. Chuck V and the others are definitely setting the bar on the 'shelf' above there shoulder blades. Everyone is built a little different so the bar placement can move around a bit from person to person, but anyone squatting any kind of weight is definitely setting the bar lower. You will typically see bodybuilders who do very high reps will generally keep the bar higher so that it doesn't roll on them and there core is strong enough to allow them to stay upright with lighter weight for higher reps. When someone initially starts squatting with the bar on there 'shelf' they initially feel that the bar is going to roll off, just have to get used to it. Hey I just reread it and was feeling my neck, and yes theres that big ass bone on my neck, and that would hurt like hell to rest just the bar up there...however, what about resting the bar on your traps, which would be right under that bone? |
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Post by joeaverage on Nov 16, 2008 13:31:13 GMT -5
that's what I consider squatting with the bar high, just below the bone and on your traps. The 'shelf' that people talk about is below your traps and right above your shoulder blades. Get under the bar, squeeze your shoulder blades together and float the bar down until it sets in the groove or on your 'shelf'.
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Post by thepunisher on Nov 16, 2008 14:14:33 GMT -5
that's what I consider squatting with the bar high, just below the bone and on your traps. The 'shelf' that people talk about is below your traps and right above your shoulder blades. Get under the bar, squeeze your shoulder blades together and float the bar down until it sets in the groove or on your 'shelf'. PERFECT....thanks Jim, I appreciate it man, thats sweet...last question I promise, do you use a thumb or thumbless grip...the reason I ask is because my shoulder flexibility is not very good, and I squat in a power rack and put my hands all the way to the sides of the j hooks, and when I put my thumbs around the bar, my wrists break back?..and I haven't had a lot of luck with that yet... |
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Also, I watched a lot of videos today on youtube from the previous arnold with the USAPL there, and all of them used a low bar squat with their elbows pulled back and a little up?? I also heard though that when it comes to double ply/multiply feds, they are using a high bar stance so they can keep their elbows under the bar, remain tighter and more upright, anybody have any thoughts? Is anyone using a low bar in either single or multi feds?