|
|
Post by stevein7 on Nov 5, 2008 7:53:50 GMT -5
First off, I apologise if this is somewhere on the site, I read it all ages ago and I cant remember now.
and maybe current thinking is different.
How is the DE work set up?
I am doing 8x2on squat, 8x3 on bench, on a 1 minute timer.
Do you wave like westside, I think they talk about 3 week waves, increasing the weight for three weeks.
Actually I was toying with this idea for bench - cycle by cycle do more of the sets close gripped. This is harder than normal grip.
|
|
|
|
DE work
Nov 5, 2008 13:53:01 GMT -5
Post by joeaverage on Nov 5, 2008 13:53:01 GMT -5
no waving, remember we do a free weight set to failure prior to speed work. Our speed work supplements our free weight set to failure. My philosophy on this differs from WSB. They view their version of DE as a core workout or strength building, I do not.
On our ME days we stick to the basic exercise and train with max plus bands/bar weight. We do not 'pick an exercise' in order to develop a weakness or to rotate through to prevent regression. Keep in mind, we stick to the same exercise but change bands, I have yet to get stuck!
and bench is 8x2 not 8x3, again WSB is 8x3, that didn't make sense to me so I do 8x2, think about it and tell me why that is?
|
|
|
|
Post by stevein7 on Nov 6, 2008 5:36:43 GMT -5
OK, 8x2 on DE bench, no problem.
How do you select the weight for DE work? When do you change it?
|
|
|
|
Post by stevein7 on Nov 6, 2008 5:40:41 GMT -5
Is this current?
At the Body Factory when a lifter's bar weight approaches the 50% mark on both the max effort squat and bench exercises it is time to increase your band resistance. The 50% mark is determined by your best single rep in full gear of the exercise that you are performing.
The bar weight for our speed work is between 20% - 30% of our max. The biggest mistake lifters are making when implementing Westside's methods, whether it's my way or Louie and Dave's way, is that they get hung up on having too much bar weight. Too much bar weight is will cause you to regress. This is especially true on the speed workouts.
|
|
|
|
Post by joeaverage on Nov 6, 2008 6:16:43 GMT -5
for bench, I use 135 bar weight with doubled small's. You do not want to be grinding out your reps.
|
|
|
|
DE work
Nov 21, 2008 5:18:09 GMT -5
Post by stevein7 on Nov 21, 2008 5:18:09 GMT -5
This is from powerandbulk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=527007#527007Joe Average has some okay ideas, but he hasn't done shit or trained anybody who has done shit, relatively speaking. I saw his 800 pound squat, and if Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, and Hellen Keller were judging the lift I wouldn't be suprised. His video is filled with Gene Rychlak missing lots and lots of bench attempts. Gene got good after he left the Joe Average fold. Maybe a heavy single or so before DE would be okay in a modified westside deal, but sets to failure before DE makes DE useless. Louie's guys do their best work when they are at his gym, and the only JA lifter that is well known has his lifts skyrocket after leaving the gym. This would be another clue as to who may have better training advice. And for the standard qualification: Not all people thrive with DE. If doing a set to failure before DE works good for you, I would consider dropping DE alltogether. My reply the world of 800 900 1000lb+ lifts is weird shit to me, it revolves around strange equipment and probably "creatine". As far as the video being full of missed or poor lifts, well I have not seen it but again I would imagine that is all to do with the equipment use and part of the process. Again, I am a raw lifter and so I do not worry about it. I thought I would give the programe a chance, after all I have tried many programmes out there. At first I just took bits and pieces and enjoyed the process, and the results were there. Now I am having a go at a full cycle "by the book" (but in reality there are several versions and options to choose from, it s not really carved in stone). If I get a good result I'll stick at it. Jim Parrish, (never met him) has been powerlifting a long time (20 years) and is still making progress on his system. Equipment use is a big factor, but still, for us older lifters, the emphasis on recovery is sensible. Also I do not want weight gain, and a low calorie diet fits in with the low volume approach on offer. I am not religious about Joe Average, I read it, it made sense so I thought I would try it, I will give it a fair go before I decide it is something to keep or not. I enjoy it, let's see if I can get a good result from it. Jim says “This stuff isn't that complicated. Stick to the basics, rotate your bands, plenty of rest and recovery and you'll get strong as hell. Works for me, Mazza, Mike C., my son and his 3 friends, works for anyone as long as you stick to the system” |
|
|
|
DE work
Nov 21, 2008 6:46:25 GMT -5
Post by joeaverage on Nov 21, 2008 6:46:25 GMT -5
The 1005 pound squat that Gene did that is posted on youtube that everyone raves about, the voice you hear yelling down, down, down is mine, I come into the picture right at the end. The 2 plus years that Gene trained with me, not only did we improve his bench but all 3 of his lifts. Took his squat from 700 to 1005, bench from 550 to 810, he pulled 700 for the first time while training with me.
For whatever reason, people expect Gene or whoever to make every lift they attempt. And Gene's 1000, 1005 and 1010 are all clean lifts, not sure what he is talking about.
As far as my 800 squat, that was at a local meet and I was just guest lifting and it was the first time that I ever tried 800 in my new canvas suit. I've never claimed that the lift was great or counted for shit. Now, I can rep 800 for an easy 6-7 reps and that is the whole point that I try to make about this system, it's a strength system that will make anyone very strong.
Your friend at powerandbulk is clueless, not sure what he is talking about Gene missing lots of lifts in my videos. If he knows jackshit about anything he would know when wearing a properly altered bench shirt you will rarely if ever touch anything during training. It's easy to criticize, I'm sure your friend has his own system that he developed and we can all go to his website and check it out as soon as you post the web address.
|
|
|
|
DE work
Nov 21, 2008 6:59:09 GMT -5
Post by stevein7 on Nov 21, 2008 6:59:09 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
DE work
Nov 21, 2008 7:26:07 GMT -5
Post by joeaverage on Nov 21, 2008 7:26:07 GMT -5
Steve:
I enjoy conversing with you on my site and if you want to copy and paste stuff from this site to power and bulk that is fine, but I would prefer that you not put there stuff on my site. I am not interested in getting into a tit for tat with anyone. I believe in what I do, this training has made me stronger than I thought I could ever be. When I see 800 or 900 pounds on the bar, as many times as I have done that weight in training I still can't believe that I can do it.
I'm very satisfied with my system and where I'm at, I don't want to continue addressing the same bullshit over and over.
|
|
|
|
DE work
Nov 21, 2008 7:28:30 GMT -5
Post by joeaverage on Nov 21, 2008 7:28:30 GMT -5
if you look to the left of the video screen or at Genes right arm, the guy walking into the picture with the short hair and receding hairline is me, at the very end of the video.
|
|
|
|
DE work
Nov 21, 2008 8:00:01 GMT -5
Post by joeaverage on Nov 21, 2008 8:00:01 GMT -5
keep in mind, I haven't competed in a while and may never compete again. But, I stress to my training partners 'quality of the lift'. Just because we may not compete doesn't mean we shouldn't try and improve the quality of our lifts, especially squat depth. At the end of my last regular bar squat cycle I did 900 x 2 and I videotaped it. Is it IPF or USAPL depth, no!
Will I ever squat that deep, never. I think that low is ridiculous. I do have a 900 SSB squat on video that I buried.
I challenge myself to lift the big weight and I think I've come a long way especially being drug free. I'm constantly evaluating all 3 of my lifts and my goal is to do a solid 900 to good depth, whether it's in my basement or at a meet doesn't matter to me. And I'm very close.
|
|
|
|
DE work
Nov 21, 2008 11:30:51 GMT -5
Post by stevein7 on Nov 21, 2008 11:30:51 GMT -5
I have no issue with IPF depth.
If you are training at home, its your call.
My personal opinion is that gear (suits and drugs) is not what I want, but that is my opinion, and I do not doubt that lifting in gear is as difficult or even more so than the unequipped lifting.
We all make our decisions and that's the way it is.
Good luck with your 900lb goal.
|
|
